Carol's Chickens

It was such a good day yesterday with Flame back with the flock and Flame and Vanilla staying apart that I thought we had cracked it. I was gutted when I opened the pop hole at bedtime and Flame went straight in and sat down with Vanilla immediately forcing herself underneath Flame and Flame accepting her.

But as it was said in the comments it was progress so I just to have amend the plan. Tonight at bedtime I will put Flame in the dog crate before opening the pop hole. It is no hardship to Flame to spend the night in the crate as she would spend it on the chicken shed floor anyway. It is really easy to put Flame in the crate and she is calm and settled once in there.

It is much easier and less stressful having the flock together during the day and only separating Flame at night. I will do this for a couple of nights and then try again or continue until Vanilla starts perching at bedtime.  This has to work sooner or later.

Flame

I can never understand the mentality of broodies. Flame has shown no sign of being broody during the day. She spends the day out in the run doing all the normal chicken things. So why does she switch back at bedtime!

I wonder if she thinks that her “chick” no longer needs her during the day but still needs to be kept warm at night. Who knows what goes on in their little pea brains!

In other news Jasmine looked like she was getting ready to lay again. She has only had a break of eleven days but then again last time she only took a break of seven days. Jasmine couldn’t understand why she couldn’t get in the pop hole as she likes to lay her eggs in the chicken shed just inside the pop hole.

However Jasmine did go and look at a nest box so she knows that they are there and she has laid in a nest box in the past before she took to the habit of laying in the shed. Therefore I decided to leave it to her to work out that she would need to use a nest box.

Jasmine looks for the pop hole

Jasmine checks out a nest box

Jasmine checks out the pop hole again

I returned a short time later and Jasmine was settled in a nest box. What a clever girl she is.

Jasmine settled in a nest box

I went back to check and Jasmine came out of the nest box shouting. I checked and there was no egg. This isn’t unusual for these girls. Spangle, Marmite and Salmon often sit in a nest box and come out without laying. It seems to be a serama thing and Jasmine may need some practise.

Jasmine returned to the nest box and this time she laid a very, small, round egg. Well done Jasmine.

What was very odd though is that I checked the next nest box and there was Flame with some pine shavings on her back.

Flame in the nest box with pine shavings on her back

This would signal that Flame is getting ready to lay again. Perhaps she had stopped being broody but had got lulled into thinking that she had a chick in Vanilla. It is all very odd.

I checked back later and Flame was still in the nest box. I lifted her and found that she was sat on a serama egg which I think belonged to Salmon as she had been in the nest box earlier. I put Flame into the run and she ran off and started scratching about. I really have no idea what is going on with her.

Flame stayed out for the rest of the day so I think she may be coming back into lay and also needs a bit of practice.

I will put Flame in the crate overnight and put her back in the run in the morning. Who knows what tomorrow will bring with our crazy Flock. I am  much happier with this progress than the previous situation with Flame and Vanilla glued together all day. I can much better cope with just a night time separation and feel more confident now that we will soon move past this and back to normality.

Yesterday each time I went up to the chickens Vanilla was out in the run with the rest of the flock until I went through the gate when she would then run to the closed pop hole.

Today when I have gone out to the girls Vanilla has stayed with the flock and hasn’t taken any notice of the closed pop hole.

After lunch I decided to get Flame out for some exercise. I followed my instinct and decided to leave Vanilla in the run too and see what happened. Flame ran straight into the run for a dust bath and Ebony bounded over to her, had a good look at her and then joined in with the dust bath. Ebony looked so pleased to see Flame that it was rather touching.

Then came the moment when Vanilla realised that Flame was back. We watched with bated breath. Vanilla went over and started trying to climb on Flame’s back like before. Flame angrily pecked her away. Vanilla retreated then gradually crept over again. Vanilla tried to climb over Flame again and Flame pecked her away. This time Vanilla moved away and kept her distance.

Hurrah! It seems that Flame has had enough of this relationship and all it took was for Flame to show Vanilla that she wasn’t wanted. I think we may have cracked it.

Flame and Ebony spent a long time enjoying their dust bath while Vanilla joined the rest of the flock on the patio where I had put Flame’s dish of mash.

When they had finished dust bathing Flame went to the turf and pecked at the grass. There was one moment when Flame went and looked at the pop hole and I thought that maybe this wasn’t completely over after all.

The next minute Flame was back out in the run and Vanilla stayed away from her. At one point the three bigger girls were sat together on the turf as if it was a carpet. They looked completely relaxed together but I didn’t manage to get a photo.

This morning Vanilla was mixing with the other girls

Ebony was pleased to see Flame and they immediately started a dust bath together

Vanilla has been pecked away by Flame

This was the moment when Vanilla came in for a second go at joining Flame and was pecked away again.

A great dust bath

Vanilla is with the rest of the flock while Flame and Ebony dust bath

Flame is pecking at the turf which is looking rather brown now

Flame has a look at the blocked pop hole

This was the only time that Flame had a look at the pop hole and then she spent the rest of the afternoon in the run with the rest of the flock. It was so lovely to see the whole flock out in the run together and Vanilla keeping her distance from Flame. It all looked so lovely and normal!

I decided that I would open the pop hole in the evening and see what happens. I am quite hopeful that things will be back to normal. If so we are done with this. If Flame and Vanilla are together again I will put Flame back in the crate overnight.

I feel that it will be okay though as flame has now shown Vanilla that she isn’t playing this game any more. I will report back to tomorrow on how this evening goes. Once again, fingers crossed.

I have decided that I need to completely separate Flame and Vanilla to try to break their behaviour. I have been putting, each of them in turn, in the chicken shed and letting them out together a few times a day.

This means that while Vanilla is in the shed Flame will just sit on the patio outside the pop hole and when Flame is in the shed Vanilla spends all her time trying to get in. As soon as they are together they spend their time with Vanilla sitting underneath Flame. Neither of the girls are doing any of the normal chicken things and it is getting us nowhere.

I have decided to put Flame in the dog crate in the garden shed and leave Vanilla blocked out of the chicken shed.

As Sophie said in the comments you are meant to put the broody on the wire and prop the crate up on bricks to let the air circulate underneath and cool the broody. I have always disliked the idea of the girl being sat or stood on the wire. I have decided to line the metal tray with paper and put in a dish of mash and a dish of water. The mash makes less mess as pellets tend to get flicked around. The shed is cool anyway and even if at worst it doesn’t break Flame’s broodiness I hope that it will at least break Vanilla’s behaviour.

I prefer the girls to perch at night but last night, after dark, I lifted Vanilla to the amigos perch and Flame to her perch at the back of the shed. Every time I closed the door I would hear Flame drop back down to the floor of the shed. After the fourth time I had to leave her to it. Because of this I am going to leave Flame in the crate overnight in the shed which I will close and lock.

I feel that Flame needs complete separation for this to work. Once a day I will shut Vanilla in a nest box and put Flame in the run to get some exercise while leaving the chicken shed open so that Flame can see that Vanilla isn’t in there but for this first day I am going to leave Flame here all day.

I have no idea if this will work or how long it will take but I feel that I need to do something.

Flame in the dog crate

Flame has some mash

Flame settles down in the crate

Flame has been very calm in the crate. She has eaten some mash and has been sitting preening.

In other news Smoke started laying again yesterday after her broody break of two weeks. Today She wanted to lay in the nest box that Ebony was in despite two other empty nest boxes. Ebony shouted at her and then relented and let her share the nest box.

Smoke and Ebony share a nest box

Smoke and Ebony laid their eggs side by side. It is so good to have our best serama egg layer laying again.

I will post again tomorrow with news of how this is progressing. Fingers crossed.

I am getting absolutely nowhere with trying to break this behaviour.

Flame with her baby

It would be adorably cute if Vanilla was a baby but as she isn’t it is very irritating. I have been putting Vanilla in the shed for an hour and blocking Flame out. Flame just sits on the patio outside the pop hole.

As soon as I let Vanilla out again they do this. At one point Flame did go and have a dust bath with the rest of the girls so I took Vanilla out and put her with them in the hope that she would dust bath too. All she did was sit on Flame’s back causing Flame to cut short her dust bath and return to sitting by the pop hole with Vanilla underneath her.

I really don’t know what to do to break this behaviour and I am fed up with it.

Vanilla has so completely regressed into chick behaviour that it is proving very difficult to break. Today I have tried a change of tactic. I decided that it would be better to shut Flame out of the chicken shed to try to break her of being broody. I am leaving vanilla in the shed but getting her out at regular intervals to eat, drink and exercise.

This is less stressful for Vanilla because yesterday she spent all her time pacing the patio and trying to get in to the shed. This way she just calmly settles down in the corner of the shed.

Shutting both Flame and Vanilla out of the shed doesn’t work as they spend their entire time with Vanilla sitting underneath Flame. Yesterday afternoon I cleaned out the chicken shed and the three nest boxes. I emptied them and hoovered every surface and then refilled them with fresh pine shavings and swept the patio area and cleaned the food and water dishes.

This took more than an hour and as the girls don’t like to get near the hoover it kept them away from the patio area but Flame and Vanilla spent the entire time with Vanilla sitting underneath  Flame either in the run or on one of the wooden blocks.

This morning I got them both out for a break and blocked the chicken shed to stop them going straight back in. Once they had had some food and water Flame sat just outside the pop hole. Vanilla immediately started her chick behaviour. She will jump up and peck at the back of Flame’s neck for attention. She will climb all over Flame and sit on top of her. Flame is remarkably tolerant. Eventually Vanilla will force herself beneath Flame.

Vanilla tries to get on Flame’s back

Vanilla sits on Flame’s back

Vanilla on top of Flame

Vanilla tries to find a way underneath Flame

Vanilla forces her way underneath Flame

I am amazed how tolerant Flame is with Vanilla. Richard, the farmer, keeps these bantam game birds as broodies for his bantam gold and silver wyndottes. He comes from a farming family background and breeds the traditional way of putting eggs under the broodies to let them hatch and rear the chicks whereas my serama breeder puts the eggs in an incubator and rears the chicks with heat pads.

Richard says that these game girls make excellent broodies and really good mothers. I must have struck lucky with Toffee and Emerald because they never went broody while we had them. Flame is just proving to be everything Richard said that his broody girls are.

Quite why Vanilla has taken on the role of chick is a mystery. Vanilla was much later starting to lay than the other girls. Smoke and Marmite started laying in December and all the other girls (not counting Sienna) started laying in January. Vanilla started laying in March and laid twenty four eggs in six weeks before going broody. It was shortly after that that Flame went broody and started sitting with her. Then a few days later I realised that Flame was sitting on Vanilla, or as I now realise, Vanilla was sitting underneath Flame.

I think it may be a long process to break this behaviour. At first it seemed interesting and even quite cute but now it’s become irritating. It’s more difficult to cope with than just having broodies. I wonder how long it will be before Vanilla grows up again and starts egg laying again.

I guess only time will tell.

Yesterday my husband visited the allotment. One of the other people at the allotment gave him some broccoli stalks that had gone to seed for our girls.

My husband had also bought some turf. They were on offer at five for twenty pounds. The plan is to replace the pallet pathways with turf as the wood gets very slippery when wet and also needs lifting to weed underneath. There was one turf over so the girls got that too.

It’s a bit of an overload with greens at the moment but I thought that as free range chickens on a farm have an entire field to graze it should be okay.

Salmon was first to investigate the broccoli

Speckles joins her

Another three girls join in

Speckles is first to try the turf

Ebony, Cinnamon and Jasmine join her

Vanilla tries the grass

This while Flame was in the shed and Vanilla was blocked out. Vanilla will go to the turf or the perches at the end of the run but as soon as I go through the gate she is straight back to the shed pop hole just in case she can get in.

I think it is going to take some time for Vanilla to come out of this.

Before I start today’s post I just want to give an update on Jasmine. Today she has been completely back to normal and she even has more colour in her comb. I now think that yesterday’s dozing in the morning was because the brooding and then collapsing twice had taken it out of her.

I have decided not to give her the antibiotic as I feel that there is no need and trying to put it in her beak is just more stress for her. It has a years date on it so I will keep it.

Jasmine looks so much better

Vanilla has now been broody for two weeks and Flame has been broody for one week. Over the last few days I have found that Flame has been on top of Vanilla and I have worried about Vanilla getting smothered. I have tried to separate them out a bit and Flame will then take Vanilla under her wing.

I realised that Flame was mothering Vanilla and this is perpetuating the broodiness for the pair of them. Flame thinks that she has a chick to brood and Vanilla is being kept warm.

This was proved further when I got them out this morning for a break. Flame called Vanilla to tit bits just like Speckles used to with her girls. Flame was definitely showing a bit of mothering. Vanilla then followed Flame out into the run and they had a dust bath together.

Flame and Vanilla dust bath together

I decided that this brooding situation would probably go on for a long time if I didn’t try to do something about it. I decided that when I got back home at lunch time I would get the two of them out and then when they returned to the shed I would take Vanilla out and block the pop hole to keep them apart.

After lunch I got Vanilla and Flame out of the shed and when they went back in I carried out my plan. I watched and took photos while sweeping the patio and underneath the nest boxes.

Vanilla can’t understand why she can’t back in the shed

Vanilla jumps on the “doorstop”

I suddenly had a light bulb moment. I wondered why I hadn’t just shut both of them out and try to break both of them at once so I got Flame out. This just proved the mother chick relationship and provided the most bizarre chicken behaviour that I have ever seen.

Vanilla kept going to Flame and outstretching her wings. She would also try to get Flame’s attention by tapping her beak on the back of Flame’s neck and Flame was remarkably tolerant with her.

Vanilla displays her wings

Flame and Vanilla are face to face

Vanilla has her wings outstretched

From another angle

The next minute Vanilla was pushing herself underneath Flame and I realised that all the outstretching of her wings was chick behaviour.

Vanilla forces herself underneath Flame

This is mother and chick behaviour

Vanilla appears to have regressed back to being a chick. At this point I decided to let Flame go back in the shed and block Vanilla out again. If I leave them to settle like this on the patio it will only prolong the behaviour.

While Flame was in the shed Vanilla approached Ebony and started the same behaviour with her. Ebony was having none of this nonsense and quickly walked away.

I later got Flame out for another break and Flame went to the food dish and broke up some pellets, dropped them on the floor and called Vanilla to them. Vanilla kept trying to get underneath Flame while Flame was trying to eat pellets and a couple of times Flame simply stepped over her.

I ended up opening the pop hole and letting Flame back in but blocking Vanilla as she tried to follow.

I have no idea how long this will take to break. I have never seen anything like this before. When Speckles was mothering her girls they just took advantage of her calling them to treats and protecting them but they didn’t regress into full on chick behaviour because Speckles wasn’t ever broody.

This is very odd behaviour and it will be interesting to see how long it will take to break them out of it. Normally a mother hen would stop this behaviour when the chicks are old enough to look after themselves but as Vanilla is already an adult girl who has been laying her own eggs it’s difficult to know what will happen next. I would be interested to know if anyone else has come across this behaviour.

Jasmine has given me a fright. Yesterday was her third day of being broody. First thing in the morning I lifted all three broody girls from the shed and gave out the morning sunflower hearts.

Flame and Vanilla ran out into the run and had some seeds then scratched manically as the broodies always do but Jasmine just stood on the patio looking miserable and didn’t join in at all. I was alerted that something wasn’t right.

Jasmine isn’t looking happy

I went inside and had breakfast then checked on her again and she was back in her corner of the chicken shed. I made some dishes of mash to see if she would eat. I got Vanilla and flame out of the shed then I lifted Jasmine out and stood her in front of the dish of mash.

Jasmine started pecking at the mash which I thought was a good sign but then she started rocking backwards and forwards and then slipped over on to her side. She wasn’t able to get up again so I put her in the cat box with a dish of mash. She then stood up and started eating some mash.

I had to leave to do my lunch deliveries so I put Jasmine back in her corner of the shed as I thought it would be less stressful than leaving her in the cat box and decided to make a vets appointment on my return.

Jasmine has collapsed

At lunch time I once again lifted Vanilla and Flame out of the chicken shed. I then got my husband to watch with me as I stood Jasmine in front of the dish of mash. The exact same thing happened. Jasmine pecked at the mash then she started slowly rocking forwards and backwards and slowly started to fall onto her side.

I have never seen this happen before. I rang the vets and got an appointment for an hours time. I put Jasmine in the cat box with a dish of mash and water.

The vet checked Jasmine over and she seemed absolutely fine. The vet said that her crop had food in it, her heart was normal and she took her temperature which was also normal. She checked if Jasmine’s feet would grip her finger which they did. We put her on the floor and her balance was fine and she could turn her head fine. She seemed absolutely fine and wasn’t even stressed.

The vet arranged for me to call the next morning at nine o’clock and talk to an expert on exotic birds and animals who she had tried to talk to before I arrived. The expert was busy but the vet booked a slot with her in the morning. She said to keep an eye on Jasmine and see how she goes.

Back at home I put Jasmine back in the run and she went off for a dust bath. She then had some water and then returned to the shed.

Jasmine has a dust bath when back from the vets

This morning I was pleased to see Jasmine out in the run. She has come out of her broodiness quickly the same as last time.

However as the morning progressed Jasmine was sitting perched on the ladder with her eyes closed. This is not a good sign. Next time I checked on her she was sitting in the run with her head under her wing. I haven’t seen the girls do this since they were chicks.

At nine o’clock I called the vets and they said that they couldn’t talk to the exotic bird specialist but that I would have to go to their vet surgery with Jasmine. It’s in Wokingham which is three quarters of an hour from us.

I explained that with Jasmine being wobbly on her feet and now sitting dozing that I was really scared it could be mycoplasma again and if I don’t treat her it could be passed on to the rest of the flock. The vet said that they can’t give me anything without me first taking Jasmine to the specialist.

The vet made me an appointment for three o’clock in the afternoon with the specialist.

Back from the specialist

I explained everything to the exotic animal specialist and told her how worried I was about the possibility of mycoplasma. She listened to Jasmine’s heart and said that she has a heart murmur. She said that when Jasmine had been sitting in the shed and had then gone to the mash dish, the bending of her head downwards, had caused her to rock and fall sideways.

The vet said that the fact that she then stood up again soon after was good. I told her about Sienna and that they had come in to the flock together and could well be siblings. She said this would make sense and that they had both most likely been hatched with a heart defect but that Sienna’s would have been worse than Jasmine’s.

She gave me some baytril (antibiotic) to give to Jasmine by beak, twice a day, for a week in case she has picked up an infection. She said to try to keep Jasmine as stress free as possible. She may continue for a while, maybe up to a year or she may be short lived.

I said that in future if she goes broody I will leave her so as not to stress her by lifting her out.

I am so relieved that it isn’t myco and the fact that both silky girls have had a heart problem makes sense. I know that I have to be prepared that Jasmine may suddenly go but better that than a drawn out illness. The vet said she looked bright which was good. We again put her on the floor and watched her while she wandered around and then pooped on the floor. The vet said that was fine as it gave her chance to see that that was normal.

I am just glad that after two stressful days Jasmine is still with is and isn’t contagious. We can only hope to have her for as long as possible.

Yesterday morning when I went out to the girls Smoke was out in the run. After just over a week she has come out of being broody. Vanilla who went broody the same day is still going strong.

Hurray! I thought, only one broody now but no it was not to be. That same day Jasmine went broody. We seem destined to have more than one broody at a time. Jasmine has laid twelve eggs in three weeks since her last broody break.

Today it is looking like Flame may be broody too. Flame laid her egg in the afternoon yesterday and has been in the corner of the chicken shed since this morning. She wouldn’t have been ready to lay as early as that.

I think Smoke has come out of it quicker because I close the nest boxes at the end of the day so she gets a couple of hours out in the run before bedtime. As Vanilla settles in the shed there is nothing I can do for her but lift her to the perch at bedtime. Vanilla also snaffles Flame’s eggs to sit on until I remove them.

Jasmine also settles in the shed but in the corner by the pop hole. Flame is settled with Vanilla. I have got used to Vanilla pecking me as it doesn’t hurt and she only pecks a couple of times. Jasmine is different and is full of anger and keeps on pecking me. Flame also pecks me and her pecks do hurt so she is difficult to move.

I am beginning to think that if there are going to be lots of broody girls at the same time I may have to just leave them to it, just making sure that they come out at least once a day.

An angry, broody, Jasmine

Broody Vanilla with a possibly broody Flame

Flame has laid fifty four eggs since starting this year at the end of February. She is a very good layer.

By the afternoon I decided to get all three girls out. I took the little girls out and then used gardening gloves to lift Flame out. She had laid and had been sitting on her egg.

Flame rushed around going from the mash I had put on the patio to the the top of the little shelter and back again at speed. Flame stood tall and shook herself and made a lot of noise. She rushed back to the mash again.

The next time I checked both Flame and Vanilla were settled back in their corner and Jasmine was settled back by the pop hole. Sigh!

Vanilla and Flame settled back in the corner again

In other news the hormones had kicked in with Speckles again and before she had got an egg laid she was back to drinking copious amounts of water again. There was a patch of wet, sloppy, poop under her roost spot again this morning.

It seems that this is definitely hormone related and I am not sure she will even lay an egg this time round as she has given up gong to the nest box. I am not bothered about having any eggs from her and she looks happy and fine in every other way so I am not worried about her.

There is never a dull moment in this chicken run!

I thought that yesterday might have been the day. Speckles has been very vocal to the point of being annoying. She stands at the bottom of the run shouting. It seems that it is for no reason but I think she is trying to announce to the world that she is getting ready to lay.

The hormones are raging and she has angrily had a go at Jasmine whenever she gets too close. She pulled a beak full of silky feathers from Jasmine’s back.

Speckles then settled herself in the nest box and set about piling pine shavings on her back. Peace at last!

Speckles in the nest box with pine shavings on her back

A bit later Speckles was back out in the run. I checked the nest box and …… nothing! No egg after all. More practice needed. Speckles always needs a bit of practice before laying her first egg after a break.